PvP Balance for BK

[math21]

Hello, I would like to give you a suggestion regarding the current balancing of pvp. I will speak in particular of PvP Bk vs BK.

As we all know it is very easy to kill a Bk with a potion rate low or medium. One or two combos and it's finished, but to kill the bests BK it's an other story.

Indeed it is absolutely impossible for two BK with very good potion rates to make a duel, it never ends.

A fight between two BKs equipped with set uber and two uber weapons is almost endless. One must wait for one to have a lag or a freeze, and take advantage to place some good combos to be able to kill him only once. And if both players have a stable connection it can last for hours. So, in these conditions it is absolutely unthinkable for these two players to make a duel. And I only speak of the BK who use two weapons, if one of them equips a shield then it's over, they can prepare coffee because they will never kill.

I find this situation really painful, the only solution I found to finish a few rounds against good BK is to completely remove our armor. But it still remains extremely long for one of the two to be able to kill the other.

I will show you for example, what happened to me today.

We decided with a friend to make a little friendly fight to pass the time. So we started with a classic fight, full uber set vs full uber set, without shield of course. As a result, it was impossible for both to take one kill, and yet we tried several different sets (hyon / vic, garuda, brass, sekhmet, mahes baldr ...). So we decided to remove the armor, but the result was the same, we are immortal.
And finally we tried to remove our entiere set, we had only our wings and our two weapons. The result was ridiculous, even though the fight lasted an eternity, I show you a part, the round ends only when one has no more potion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F8ffBpkOwM&feature=youtu.be

That's what decided me to come here, to ask if we could find a solution. The goal would be for me to find a way, to reduce the fighting time between BK. Several ways to achieve this, increase the damage of bk, reduce their defense, reduce their HP, add uber sets with more damage, increase the damage of those already existing ...

There are many solutions, and I would like to hear from other players.

 

[Abesta]

Hello Braxu,

I remember you, I remember your guild but you should remember old pvp too. Remember when we had 10 pots per sec and even there were guys whose used to pot 255 times in 12-13 seconds which means had 20 potions per sec. And as old player you remember well those times that we always removed our minimum 2 set parts to pvp with each other and even with that it lasted like a hour to kill one another. I remember even I didn`t have the best pot rate like some of them but I had 10 pots per second and I could stand againt DLs without a set, we made pvps without set and guess what, sometimes we needed more than 30 seconds to kill each other. So why I wrote this down. Just for you to make a little comparison and think if current one is endless or the one we had before?

Now secondly and the most needed part.
If you want to suggest a pvp formula which will be OK for all members whose playing from different pings it will be good but if you want to suggest something which will work for lower ping players then it will be something different. You yourself even admited that some bks killing each other very fast with in 2 combos. So what will be happen if dmg increased or def decreased? They will kill each other with in 1 cyclone?


I want to say that, you are just thinking one sided and it not works as suggestion.


Too random BKs killing eachother very hard and skill is needed also. Compare to me, I am a good killer but I am dying as paper too. So, I know how to play and how to hit hard. And if you guys have boring duel and cant kill each other, simple talk and off parts as you did and problem solved :-D

 

[Aga]

I like ur suggestion, so i want to noticed other thing like it. If it is possible decreasing the defence while not touching the damage. Cz, if them change dmg of bk, it will be good for whos high pinger. Them will abuse it with their weird combos and some hitters appear. If u get a point what i saying, u can see we talking about same thing.

 

[GARP]

i got 5 pot/sec i have fight with guys same and we die just fine

 

[math21]

Thank you all for your answers, I hope that many will still come to give their opinion.

I'll start answering.

Me too I remember you Abesta, and I also remember the old PvP with 20 pots / sec. Today is maybe a little better ok, but it still has not changed much. Before it was impossible for two European players to kill themselves, even without a set. Today, without set you can kill someone with luck after 5/10 minutes if he has a lag. I do not think it's enough. Why not make sure we can kill ourselves with our sets?

Afterwards, ok players with low potion rates can kill themselves. Honestly with 2 pots / sec the first who enchains two combo has win. But you really think that 50k hp less or a few more damage will change something for them? I do not think so, whereas, for those who can not kill, it would change everything.
So ok, my opinion is more than one side, but I do not think this suggestion will really handicap the other side.

And for information, our duel without anything ended only because I had no more potions. So the problem is not really resolved.

Aga, I agree some players with big lags can send a large amount of damage. But we do not talk about big changes. Yes with 100k more damage it will be unplayable.But if you only have 50k less hp for example, it will not really change much against these players.

Origami, maybe you have 5 pots/sec and maybe you can kill people who also have 5 pots/sec. But you have SD+5 partson your set, and your opponent also probably. With 5/6 pots/sec and a set with ddr 7% it's realy not fine.

 

[GARP]

Origami, maybe you have 5 pots/sec and maybe you can kill people who also have 5 pots/sec. But you have SD+5 partson your set, and your opponent also probably. With 5/6 pots/sec and a set with ddr 7% it's realy not fine.

im speaking about both sides with ddr 7%

 

[Mr. Sandman]

I have 1 or 2 pot per second. And I don't cry if I will die. I think everything is a good combination. I can kill Uber whit good combo and patience.

 

[Flippy]

From what i have read most of you guys suggest a small nerf on BK defense and maybe less HP (40-50k) ? As for sets we do not plan to alter them any time soon. We tried to ballance the options between the sets and also to revive some old unused Ubers. Ofc we cannot satisfy literally everyone with the changes we make and we are completly aware of this but with good suggestions we can alter some game mechanics to improve the quality of the gameplay.

However i would like you to regard this subject on a bit larger scale than just BK vs BK and also include feedback from PvP against the other classes as well. We can't make changes just considering BK vs BK PvP because not everyone plays this class. There are DLs, SMs, and ELFs out there and some nostalgic MGs that might have some fun after this update i hope.

So i kindly ask you to keep this discussion on the topic without spam and flame. Moderators will keep it under survaillance and any reply that is out of boundries will be deleted.

What i would like to see as suggestions/feedbacks would be small changes like [MENTION=23273]math21[/MENTION] said : -40-50k HP on X class, small defense reducement in Y class and so on.

The problem of BK vs BK is the potions limit. Before we reduced the pot cap as a continuous request by some EU players, myself included i admit, in order to fight off the the advantage of high ping users, everything was well ballanced between all classes and we achieved that with very small tweaks.

Small tweaks are the key of PvP ballance and im really glad someone within the community finnaly made such a suggestion. You have my graditudes and my full support in this thread.

Best regards,
Dreams

 

[-[Sieghart]-]

This suggestion is very OK... and It seems SEMI UBER is equal now to UBER SET so sad....

Even the Durability of each s3 Items as resistant mentioned it cant repair and its a bug however were concern about its DURABILITY If The worst thing to happen if it will fall to 0/0 :rofl: ..

 

[Bjorn]

U have to think about player who have bad por rate to,if u wanna bks fight to bks equals, have to reduce the por rate to 3, so i ill die, u ill die, and u can kill me, and i can kill u,soo is fair to all, if u upgrade , more the DMG of sets (i think the DMG of full Uber sets is to high) most people ill Die easily, and Many player ill abuse it with lag

 

[Abesta]

Regarding this: [MENTION=34170]Dreams[/MENTION] - What i would like to see as suggestions/feedbacks would be small changes like [MENTION=23273]math21[/MENTION] said : -40-50k HP on X class, small defense reducement in Y class and so on.

Well, on current pvp system you guys can agree with me that, if we all consider BK vs BK and BK vs DL we can find a good formula for pvp system. So lets think what can be possible results if BK's 460k HP be 410k

# Pvp between Equal Pot rate (more than 4 per second)
BK vs BK - there will be good results. Nothing more to say about, it will be easier than current one.
BK vs DL (always consider swell on DL) - well, DL will eat you. Coz he easily can do this atm and consider what can he do if 50k hp nerfed. So, solution is decreasing DL's defense or decreasing possible HP with swell buff

# small pot rates due high ping:
BK vs BK - it will end really faster plus a bit laggy game will help
BK vs DL (with swell) - BK have no chance so decreasing defense of DL or max possible HP of DL is a must on this option.



These 2 variants are Uber vs Uber fights. And I wrote my opinion as regarding Dreams request.


But what is my real point of view about pvp. This will make some of you angry and specially Dreams but I am saying this for months already, there is really hard to test and find a nearly perfect pvp formulas with current Ubers. I will explain why. Because think as mathematician. While EDRI,CDRI, Decrease opponents Defense and DD options' percents are higher, the pvp will mostly about LUCK. You don`t need to have good playing abilities, just while pvping pray the GOD and ask a good luck from him and wait to have all of your Damages as Double Damage. Thats it. That is the main reason why pvp is so unstable. As default ancient options with 20 percent of have Double Damage meant you have 20% of a luck, so your pvp wouldn`t be depended on luck at all. As I said just 20% percent of a luck. But currently, it is not like that. These options are not bad and I can feel how RESiSTANT, Dreams and the others worked hard on it. It is not a joke. It need really hard work and you have to re consider all possible ways and they did it. Is the result as balance between Ubers are bad? Not really. But I am repeating this once again, it just brought unstability to the pvp. 6 months ago, when I back from the army, it was even more unstable. On those times I was against it too and sometimes I was considered as unskilled and annoying but all the times after that, some options changed. Yet, there is something unstable and it always been. Because no matter how skilled you are, if you are not lucky at all, you will die. Having 80% of Double Damage doesn`t meant from 10 damages you will make 8 Double Damage. You can make 0/10 double damage and also 10/10 too.


Well, I really can make it so long by talking about every details but it is not needed. For me the solution is, bringing back the default ancient options and after it re working on PVP Formulas. I am always up to help to you to test it.


Believe me or not guys, one day you will back to default ancient options, since already mixed ancient options fixed. But hope it will not be that late to be back to default options.

 

[GARP]

well about the other classes
1-2 update ago we got 30% more extra swell
on other cllasses the thing is
that pvp its not onlly massive its 1 v1 too
on that side woulld be better if other cllasses instead of swell 30% extra they get 30% extra hp

as u may know
DL-MG-SM even elf sometimes without swelll
theyr not much for bk
DL got Good Defence And Once He Gets Swell Hes one of The Strongest
MG is About Usseles fighting
SM the only way to kill someone with SM its to go with full SD But Also U die with 1 cyclone
ELF Got Prety Good DMG Can killl other classes Only When On Mount



if u Think Every cllass And u See theyr HP+Theyr Buf
We got Like MG 120K HP(No bufs)
DL Around 100K HP (Crit) crit yes it does give extra dmg but we have it like used i mean without crit dll dmg is prety low
SM Around 85k HP (ManaShielld) Sm Even With DDR Draco set With MS and 5 POT/SEC it dies prety easy (MS need bit buffed)
ELF Around 90K HP (Def Buf-DMG Buf) Ellf DMG Buf Its very good it help Her Hit Hard Enaf to Slap A bk in face xD But About Def Buf Not Very Big dif (Ther its diference just not big)
And Last But Not Least The BK
With 460K HP(With Swell) thats to much allmost x4 of alll other classes
allso if other cllasses gets swelll they going around Same

My Opinion Here Its
Nerf BK Swell
Nerf Bk swell On other classes more
Increase hp on other classes
so atleast in the end Will be like
BK +SWELL=300K HP
DL-SM-ELF-MG NO SWELL =200K HP AND +SWELL 250K HP

 

[Halfdanjal]

MG needs a little higher damage and defense, he isn't very durable and killing usually happens on BK's that aren't ready or SM's / Elf's / Other MG's, no argument about DL, unkillable by MG.
DL doesn't need anyhting, can kill all classes, is pretty durable, can handle 3 v 1 situation with swell.
BK needs a little bit reduced damage. But just a little bit, other than that everything is fine.
Elf needs reduced damage also and together with that increased defense, because at current situation, the first to hit - wins. The fight to be more interesting, damage must be a little lower and defense - higher. This will lenghten the fights and stop the boring dying pretty much all the time.
SM needs higher defense, damage is alright, but pretty much with full SD set only, I've tried replacing SD with DDR parts, the fight takes forever and SM loses. Adding more defense on the wings could do the trick. Basically so SM doesn't die from few twists, so he can whitstand ordinary combo, so it requires 2 good combos in a row to kill him. Sounds easy, but isn't, since the attack rate is insane. And something must be done about SM not being able to kill DL. I don't know how to fix that tho. But if SM gets higher defense, maybe it will somehow make the situation better.

If everything of this is possible, the PvP could get even more balanced than it is right now.

 

[CYCO]

why not just set everything on default, every class will have the same HP , DEF AND DMG the only diff is their buff and set? lets face it after this there will be another suggestion for PVP adjustment.

 

[Gracious]

Well, this is only my 3rd day in the server, but ballance seems alright.
Not only for BMs, but for all classes in general.

 

[TheFearOne]

mg needs faster attack speed and dmg
bk is fine but in oder for otjer classes to fight sm dies on reflect it has low hp high dmg. make sm hp high and dmg high it rocks on elf make its normal attack dmg high but skill dmg on arrow low on the server i play before elf is able to fight with bk elf with shield and macw obly due to high dmg normal attack not bow using. for mg high hp needs durability vs bk it mist kill bk using fireslash